Comments on: The Rhetoric of Journalism – Defining and Re-Defining What We Do. http://blog.digidave.org/2009/04/the-rhetoric-of-journalism-defining-and-re-defining-what-we-do Journalism is a Process, Not a Product Mon, 30 Jan 2012 12:45:43 +0000 hourly 1 By: Micro-Payments vs. Crowd Funding « DigiDave – Journalism is a Process, Not a Product http://blog.digidave.org/2009/04/the-rhetoric-of-journalism-defining-and-re-defining-what-we-do/comment-page-1#comment-55628 Micro-Payments vs. Crowd Funding « DigiDave – Journalism is a Process, Not a Product Mon, 25 Jan 2010 14:02:13 +0000 http://www.digidave.org/?p=1075#comment-55628 [...] To some extent – I think it’s splitting hairs. But I have an ongoing post that tries to do just this about journalism rhetoric. [...] [...] To some extent – I think it’s splitting hairs. But I have an ongoing post that tries to do just this about journalism rhetoric. [...]

]]> By: Good, Fast and Cheap: Startups Can Only Pick Two of These « The Levisa Lazer http://blog.digidave.org/2009/04/the-rhetoric-of-journalism-defining-and-re-defining-what-we-do/comment-page-1#comment-24303 Good, Fast and Cheap: Startups Can Only Pick Two of These « The Levisa Lazer Tue, 13 Oct 2009 15:56:30 +0000 http://www.digidave.org/?p=1075#comment-24303 [...] becoming more entrepreneurial. “Entrepreneurial” itself is a buzzword that should be defined, but it either means journalists as innovators (entrepreneur as a person who is pushing [...] [...] becoming more entrepreneurial. “Entrepreneurial” itself is a buzzword that should be defined, but it either means journalists as innovators (entrepreneur as a person who is pushing [...]

]]> By: On the term “citizen journalism” « DigiDave - Journalism is a Process, Not a Product http://blog.digidave.org/2009/04/the-rhetoric-of-journalism-defining-and-re-defining-what-we-do/comment-page-1#comment-12423 On the term “citizen journalism” « DigiDave - Journalism is a Process, Not a Product Thu, 04 Jun 2009 15:43:59 +0000 http://www.digidave.org/?p=1075#comment-12423 [...] My take on The Rhetoric of Journalism [...] [...] My take on The Rhetoric of Journalism [...]

]]> By: Digidave http://blog.digidave.org/2009/04/the-rhetoric-of-journalism-defining-and-re-defining-what-we-do/comment-page-1#comment-1103 Digidave Thu, 23 Apr 2009 07:41:57 +0000 http://www.digidave.org/?p=1075#comment-1103 @chris I understand your sentiment - but then you are still not providing a definition of "professional." The def. you give is circular. You are saying - "professional journalism is that which is produced in a professional way." That still leaves me scratching my head. Payment might not be what defines professional - but we need some kind of definition other than the label "professional" itself - otherwise we end up arguing over who gets to decide where that label is applied. Make sense? @chris
I understand your sentiment – but then you are still not providing a definition of “professional.”

The def. you give is circular. You are saying – “professional journalism is that which is produced in a professional way.” That still leaves me scratching my head.

Payment might not be what defines professional – but we need some kind of definition other than the label “professional” itself – otherwise we end up arguing over who gets to decide where that label is applied.

Make sense?

]]> By: Chris http://blog.digidave.org/2009/04/the-rhetoric-of-journalism-defining-and-re-defining-what-we-do/comment-page-1#comment-1097 Chris Wed, 22 Apr 2009 18:42:05 +0000 http://www.digidave.org/?p=1075#comment-1097 I have to disagree with you I’m afraid, it's your notion of professionalism, if a journalist gets paid for writing in a newspaper or website etc might make he/she a type of journalist but not a professional. A journalist is someone who carries out the journalistic process in a professional way, that doesn’t require payment although the two are often associated. So good journalism is journalism that is performed in a 'good' and 'professional' payment doesn’t matter. I have to disagree with you I’m afraid, it’s your notion of professionalism, if a journalist gets paid for writing in a newspaper or website etc might make he/she a type of journalist but not a professional. A journalist is someone who carries out the journalistic process in a professional way, that doesn’t require payment although the two are often associated. So good journalism is journalism that is performed in a ‘good’ and ‘professional’ payment doesn’t matter.

]]> By: Digidave http://blog.digidave.org/2009/04/the-rhetoric-of-journalism-defining-and-re-defining-what-we-do/comment-page-1#comment-975 Digidave Fri, 10 Apr 2009 03:05:11 +0000 http://www.digidave.org/?p=1075#comment-975 It’s just a little ironic making up your own definitions for things such as professional journalism, when journalism is usually about trying to communicate things to people in a way that has meaning for them I don't see it as ironic at all - this is my blog. I rarely do journalism on this blog - it is almost always me just talking to myself (with other people listening in). As for the profession thing: I really do stand by this: Professional, commercial, whatever you want to call it - all too often is used as a euphemism for "good journalism." It makes a straw man argument against citizen journalists (oh, well... they aren't professional so it must be bad). I hate that. Professional simply means you are doing it for a living. End of story (again - this is just how I take it). It’s just a little ironic making up your own definitions for things such as professional journalism, when journalism is usually about trying to communicate things to people in a way that has meaning for them

I don’t see it as ironic at all – this is my blog. I rarely do journalism on this blog – it is almost always me just talking to myself (with other people listening in).

As for the profession thing: I really do stand by this: Professional, commercial, whatever you want to call it – all too often is used as a euphemism for “good journalism.” It makes a straw man argument against citizen journalists (oh, well… they aren’t professional so it must be bad).

I hate that. Professional simply means you are doing it for a living. End of story (again – this is just how I take it).

]]> By: Kerry J. Northrup http://blog.digidave.org/2009/04/the-rhetoric-of-journalism-defining-and-re-defining-what-we-do/comment-page-1#comment-963 Kerry J. Northrup Thu, 09 Apr 2009 21:31:04 +0000 http://www.digidave.org/?p=1075#comment-963 If like you say this is just a guide so that people can understand what you are talking about when you use one of these terms, that's fine. Sort of a decoder ring for your posts. It's just a little ironic making up your own definitions for things such as professional journalism, when journalism is usually about trying to communicate things to people in a way that has meaning for them, rather than making them adopt your meaning. Still, I have to demur on your effort to define professional journalism as just about making money. Otherwise unprofessional journalism would be when you don't make money, right? And then it's OK for me to refer to citizen journalists as amateurs. Not. Wordplay aside, you're cherry-picking just one meaning of "professional," usually not the preferred meaning, and in any case the only meaning in the list that has anything to do with livelihood. All the rest of the meanings, the more common ones (outside sports), have to do with standards, ethics, competence, comportment, trustworthiness and training. Most people's opinions about whether someone is a professional journalist vs. a hack clearly are not based on the practitioner's income. It is a long-running debate in journalism whether we actually qualify, in the sociological sense, as a profession or a craft or a trade or what. It's a rather academic argument, in both meanings of that word. But I know very few people who would endorse separating the common conceptions of professional journalism and good journalism like you have. Me thinks the phrase you are really looking for is "commercial journalism." If like you say this is just a guide so that people can understand what you are talking about when you use one of these terms, that’s fine. Sort of a decoder ring for your posts. It’s just a little ironic making up your own definitions for things such as professional journalism, when journalism is usually about trying to communicate things to people in a way that has meaning for them, rather than making them adopt your meaning.

Still, I have to demur on your effort to define professional journalism as just about making money. Otherwise unprofessional journalism would be when you don’t make money, right? And then it’s OK for me to refer to citizen journalists as amateurs.

Not.

Wordplay aside, you’re cherry-picking just one meaning of “professional,” usually not the preferred meaning, and in any case the only meaning in the list that has anything to do with livelihood. All the rest of the meanings, the more common ones (outside sports), have to do with standards, ethics, competence, comportment, trustworthiness and training. Most people’s opinions about whether someone is a professional journalist vs. a hack clearly are not based on the practitioner’s income.

It is a long-running debate in journalism whether we actually qualify, in the sociological sense, as a profession or a craft or a trade or what. It’s a rather academic argument, in both meanings of that word. But I know very few people who would endorse separating the common conceptions of professional journalism and good journalism like you have.

Me thinks the phrase you are really looking for is “commercial journalism.”

]]> By: links for 2009-04-09 « http://blog.digidave.org/2009/04/the-rhetoric-of-journalism-defining-and-re-defining-what-we-do/comment-page-1#comment-961 links for 2009-04-09 « Thu, 09 Apr 2009 20:30:19 +0000 http://www.digidave.org/?p=1075#comment-961 [...] The Rhetoric of Journalism - Defining and Re-Defining What We Do. « DigiDave - Journalism is a Proc... [...] [...] The Rhetoric of Journalism – Defining and Re-Defining What We Do. « DigiDave – Journalism is a Proc… [...]

]]> By: A retórica do jornalismo : Ponto Media http://blog.digidave.org/2009/04/the-rhetoric-of-journalism-defining-and-re-defining-what-we-do/comment-page-1#comment-947 A retórica do jornalismo : Ponto Media Thu, 09 Apr 2009 10:37:12 +0000 http://www.digidave.org/?p=1075#comment-947 [...] DE VEZ em quando é preciso que alguém tente (re)definir alguns conceitos, para que possamos falar uma língua comum: The Rhetoric of Journalism - Defining and Re-Defining What We Do. [...] [...] DE VEZ em quando é preciso que alguém tente (re)definir alguns conceitos, para que possamos falar uma língua comum: The Rhetoric of Journalism – Defining and Re-Defining What We Do. [...]

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